Denying that problem only makes it worse. Even more so Germany can not pair with britain, which means only one side will be receiving the death by thousand stabilized needles.USA brings a ton of HEATFS that chew through the Tiger II UPF. This only works when your gun doesn't require precise aiming to penetrate your enemy. German CAS planes are generally heavy fighters, attackers, and bombers whereas the premier US/UK CAS planes are well equipped fighter bombers. But how often do you see good teamplay in randombattles? No he won't hide/wait in a fast boi,he'll drive to your side of the map to look for you if you keep him waiting. You have to constantly be aware of this. With the (by my understanding) more recent ai changes in air realistic battles the ai is now invulerable to most guns, this also led to a lack of engagement in the maps that were made to adapt the changes, are there plans to change the current player-a.i. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. Armor profile is meh also and they are abit slower than the tiger 2s surprisingly. Internal mods of higher tier vehicles are more durable, sometimes not even the engine starts burning if you shot a shell into the back of an rank 4 enemy. Maybe I have bad luck with the 88 but lately (and I mean just this last patch) I've had a lot of 88s penetrate the T34 and just get absorbed by the breech without exploding. The Brit needs 2-3 good hits to kill the KT, while the KT just takes one hit to blow the Cent up with huge APHE. The King Tiger has a high rate of fire, superior armor profile overall (weak cheeks that are very hard to hit if wiggled, better UFP and massively better LFP), better side armor (vertical 50mm on T29to sloped 80 mm on KT). As the matter relates to teams' statuses and ticket bleed, the capture point's alignment once captured is ended from the moment it is captured until the moment that hold on it is broken or the game ends. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. They are the equivalent to the surge of M22s that the allies occasionally see when some overly loud youtuber decides to make a video about "haha ebic meme tank"causing an influx. But yes, if manage to get in a flanking spot undetected you can flank with it. Are king tigers unplayable? The most obvious example of this is that a player can jump directly from the Panzer IIIs at 3.0 to the Tiger H1 at 5.3. I have said quite the opposite honestly. Or a Jagdtiger? You cant carry against so many players. I like Wallonia, I hate Kursk. Asparagus can be eaten raw as well as cooked, it is used as a remedy for urinary . Alternatively they could bring in an ground attacker with a better CAS loadout, but in turn be utterly outmatched when it comes to fighting for control of the sky. As someone who has played all nations, I have had the opportunity to play with and against German tanks. Be always aware of this. But he still requires to go through your turret so mixing it up and not sitting is what's the best option to proceed at those ranges. Which he can only do if he knows where you are, you can't flank what you can't see now can you. If they're not interested in moving the follow up question should be why they don't when in German vehicles. He will command the rules of engagement and the battleground not you. Anything that doesn't fit your narrative: step forward progressively. Usually it's the other way around, the M18 waits around for a target and looks around corners with the third person view camera. And if he turns it to the side literally shoot the huge side of the turret that will be exposed. 'German players' are not somehomogenous group, clearly people play different nations. If you check old war images of M4 tanks, you will see that not all of them had turret mounted .50cals. ..and I'm not talking about the vehicles, they're OK-ish. Thus, links were forged between the crime of public nuisance and the tort of private nuisance at an early stage in the development of the common law. Especially when you get uptiered to 7.7. The stock ammo for them is useless! Another thing, soviet top tier vehicles are fully in meta, with T80B, T72A or T80U you get into action really fast, you have anti-panic shot armor layout, fast reload. Second, almost every US tank has .50 cals for AA purposes. Which is why its more rewarding when they pull it off as they had to put more effort into making it work and that's what people need nowadays a challenge. By 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. Sometimes it works. While the M18 can potentially be used for flanking regardless of tier--this is true of any vehicle--it is also a vehicle that can be wiped out even by lowly 1.0s. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. With a fast tank it is easier to get to places and to take advantageous positions. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. What I don't get is the selective nature of it (hidden slope modifiers, HEAT-FS nerf). It's very weak side armor also means that it's close to pointless to angle it, compared to the Tiger I. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. The Panther, by contrast, is reasonably quick for a medium tank, retains decent armor and is vastly better armed. You can't aim when they shot in your direction. How to use automatic gear optimal to get the Panther moving: If you move on flat or rising terrain, roads are an exception, use the 2nd auto gear. He just needs to find the right way to flank you. Your best chance would be using Japan yourself, Ah I see. I'd love to hear an in depth explanation of why you think that. Sidenote: chuckling at all the silly "confused" reactions haters are giving. Are there plans to finally separate ww2 (and pre-ww2) vehicles from post ww2 (like vehicles made. Thats why the Germans tend to be passive. In general, German win rates are in the 40s even at their lowest and this means that they're near the balancing point (the 45-55% range, being within +/-5 of 50%). And Germany has long 88s also at 5.7. I "like" how you start out this topic with some kind of meme-theme, that there's nothing to it more than it being perceived as "suffering!" Just an observation maybe its just me. (This topic will likely be flooded by people doing exactly this or otherwise trying to hijack the thread.). Also .50 cals have too much pen, loosing light tanks and all sorts of AA vehicles to those is no fun, especially if other nation just have to rely on their main guns. If you spot him first and don't manage to kill him with the first spot you are dead even if he can't pen you from the front. Example, an M18 is freaking fast compared to a Panther or any other German Tank of that tier. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. The best editions of doctor oz supplement pills for ed Florus are Duker s, 2 vols. Jagdtiger? Which is situational and works only on several maps. they turn by applying breaks to one track to initiate the turn. France truly suffers, the major trees offer too much, France needs more! Tell me what 6.7 what tanks have penetrating the side of the T series. Samuel Tito Pessa. Oh definitely trade-offs are to be expected. With things as they are with just a little more zeal in pursuing the objectives, Germany would do just fine. There are major gaps in all the TTs that need to be addressed. He can easily continue flank and pen King Tigers from the side. Then yes, M18 would be toast. Neither Soviets, Brits nor Ger vehicles have them, beside some prems or some advanced sub-types. Powered by Invision Community. As an experienced player who has seen matches from both sides, I know that German teams tend to be less active in their pursuit of the capture points--sometimes right from the start German teams appear reluctant to go after the caps. Also, most capture points are arranged such to allow for substantial firing work into/out of them from such ranges. This is of course a burden if you're in a CQC situation where the APDS will easily pen your frontal armor. You can go through things but often times you die. But the issue is most players have these vehicles they weren't exclusive or timed events. The Challenger 2 is the third vehicle of this name, the first being the A30 Challenger, a World War II design using the Cromwell tank chassis with a 17-pounder gun. Just because there would be more open maps doesn't mean we can't have CQC maps. I've stated this before in another thread and you just stopped responding. Not meta. Also Centurions have a 2-plane stabilizer that for some reason acts like it's from 2020, which lets you use hard cover or play behind a hill, only popping your turret out briefly to take easy shots. No, the good players, because we need to play with this.. other 90% of the other players, that only got enough braincells to press W. Just carry, its what I do. The personal well being of the person who capped it means little to the team if they have succeeded--that part of their reason for being is fulfilled by then. How is this true for any vehicles? And the T series has a thick turret but the tiger 2 has a better hull. MBIZO CHIRASHA( International -Zimbabwean) is a Pan-Writivism Laureate Literary Arts Activism Diplomate/Influencer, Certified Projects Curator, African Writing Associate/Visiting Arts Programs, World Renowned Anthologist, Poet in-Residence Emeritus ,Festivals Convener/Speaker/ SpokenWordArtist. There are many, many more ways in which Germany is claimed to suffer--these are just a few that I chose to address for this first post. While I played my Germans at 5.7, uptiers beyond 6.0 were very rare. Germany has a P-47 that lacks bombs and rockets, which means it is not burdened by those as distractions or dead weight in the case of opposing fighters. While the M18 can reverse much quicker, it also lurches about far more. Not sure why, maybe it's a new bug or there's a spall shield I'm unaware of, but it's really annoying. Allied CAS i superior. FInally we can do much more than to just get flanked. there are people who will likely attack you for not buying into the Germany suffers claims. As for the Panthers' turret traverse, except for the D variant, all are quite well suited for engagement at medium to long ranges. If you don't. Yes but this is should be fixed for once and for all. All trademarks, logos and brand names are the property of their respective owners. They usually tend to be just as useless as those M22s too. If you shoot the side of the turret its about 175mm thick but if you shoot the hull its about 77mm thick. Again as stated before in other threads it is an option it is not viable in most instances as you typically just die. Even so, better reverse speed on competing tanks does not in itself put those competing tanks (like M18s), as they can have drawbacks of their own. Add the EBR 1954 Version in the Tech tree, add the French Tiger 1 'Bretagne', add the French stabilised gun variant of the AMX-10RC and AMX-30 in the main tech tree . The T34 where as it has more penetration it has a longer reload and solid shot which recently seems to have suffered a reduced damage output off it round. According to this complaint, Germanys mobility is insufficient to be competitive in RB GFs, with the greatest concentration of this complaint being focused on the 5.X range. The only situation where the Panther would in a clear advantage is a plain map where the M18 has no chance for covered approach. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. Allied tanks have a thinner top armor in general than the German and Soviet tanks, which makes a high pen round not a necessary feature to get kills from the air. If you haven't noticed I'm implying being one/two steps ahead. This is a major drawback and makes this tank so special. - Panther armour is easier to use and still ok. No need to angle, just point the front towards the enemy. I am sure that these questions are on many peoples' minds and you are asked at least some of these questions often. Meanwhile the M18 will be sitting in the ambush or going around the cap into your back because he know that you will not dare to cap. Armor is lolpened by DM33 and higher. I am obviously a bit salty though, I've played basically every nation in WT except the USA so maybe I'm a bit biased. I tested you 50 cal theory and it can be done but it takes so many rounds and reloads its not an arguing point at all. None of this is specific to Germany or the Americans mind you. What about T95? But it will go as well as it would if American tanks went up to 6.7. its a combo of bad general movility (its not only foward speed its also traverse speed and reverse speed) and bad gun handling (turret traverse speed and gun elevation speed) mixed with a terrible map design that make the game some kind ofcall of duty playstyle. Absolutely you're right on that point, but let's turn the tables here for some perspective. Every time I play 5.7, I see a lot of Tiger I. The m41 is a welcomed addition. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. And as a you tube person showed in his video and based on the evidence presented its quite obviousEast Germany will carry Germanyand save top tier balance. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. Your observations are not a statistical fact or some sort of general trend setting. T__ turret has double layered spots where it goes as high as 300mm, angled cheeks, and is straight up thicker even at it's weakest points. Canon CAS is quite strong if left unchecked. You have to be reactive rather than proactive and take advantage of mistakes made by allied players. I just read this post and simply had to react because you draw all the wrong conclusions.And BTW i also played all three major nations. Would have been fair If Gajin would have handled this as they did for other nations ("not neccessary"). A Pz IV F2 can also lol pen a KV-1, Churchill or ARL-44 and probably knock them out with one shot from either front or side. Thats why it is so extremely annoying when you have to shoot the turret. I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. He can cap first and when wait till in an ambush till you start to decap. is getting boosted taking them out requires specific loadouts and concentration, which makes the CAS player very susceptible for enemy fighters, this is further exacerbated by the poor balance among the nations at different br.s. - During all that time you will be sitting in your spot hoping that the enemy pops up exactly where you predict it knowing that he could also pop up behind you. However there comes the real germany suffers thing. There's only one brit 6.7 with atgms, but theres like 5 total with stabs and apds, Also no, the long 88 does not go through T__ tanks with ease, you have to shoot for weakspots which is quite difficultif the enemy is moving or at long range. Any player should understand that, especially new players! I invite others to list other claims of alleged German suffering so that those can be talked about. On the contrary, the mixture of traits that German vehicles get is often favorable. And the you said the atgms you made it sound like they were common place. question. Download Free PDF View PDF. Powered by Invision Community. Of course it does, but this is not the argument here. The real question would be if you can deny the enemy taking the capture point from long ranges, which would be a resounding no. Sell, buy or trade War Thunder Items and Services here. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. It kind of creates this all-or-nothing theme, which is kind of sad if we're trying to have a serious discussion here. The turret armor isn't much. pzkpfw ii ausf l luchs 37mm war thunder official forum. #warthunder #shorthunder Hey! These same players will often say that German vehicles lesser mobility means the Germans simply cannot compete with the more nimble Allied vehicles--ignoring Germanys other merits. Turret armor>>>hull armor for a number of reasons. Really? history projects. This is a battle of patience and cunning. The stock ammo misery for every leos and m48 etc. It depends; the objectives can be just as deadly for lightweights too. The fast-paced and valiant opener marks a strong, excessive statement right at the beginning, because every detail fascinates: the riffing, the solos, the chorus, pick out whatever you want. Tried to flank with the Tortoise? Next is allied CAS which gets thrown out as another massive problem Germany faces, but it really shouldn't be since Germany has objectively the best CAS in the game all the way up to 8.0. The F-4F Phantom II is a rank VII German jet fighter with a battle rating of 11.0 (AB/RB/SB). More to the point, your initial comment is THE biggest disconnect from reality that I've read in LONG time. It doesn't cover up that much of a hull you can shoot it reasonably well. True, I had the T-44 in mind when I made that post though. The Tiger II's gun is stabilized but it doesn't bounce. If anyone has any genuine strategy for killing T__ I'm all ears. If the team melts, the team melts. Personally, I'd rather be able to harm an enemy frontally than a bit faster than him but forced to flank. @Loongsheepwell, except that you can just lolpen the entire front with APDS. Long 88 can one shot a T__ but in my experience you have to go for the shot trap, which is a risky shot. Hard cover will always be superior to armor in WT. Background: I am a guy who plays all nation with Germany being my single most played nation. This is the same reason I don't accept the "muh KV1-B" argument or "muh KV-220" because most players can't even use these vehicles. another thing that hurts germany 5.3-6.7 to much its the fact that GAIJIN thinks that low armor = low br, thx to this we have tank like m41 / pt76 / m50 / t92 / ru-251 etc., tanks that can deal w/o problem other tanks like t54 but in game they are figthing vs tiger 1. East Germnay also has access to the BMP-2 as well. While German vehicles cannot quite match others vehicles in a drag race, this does not mean German vehicles are bad. Theres no reason why being put this tank agains opponents which pens it easy and having slow rate of fire to fight them. In real life, German cats had a more advanced system/concept known as regenerative steering, this is vastly more energy efficient and especially useful for these heavy late wartanks, and other tanks after the war. Despite the complaints about Germany's WRs, they're not bad really. Are there plans to restructure the the air br system or decomress the br. I have bought the Su-11it is not even funny how broken it is, as soon as my pilot had a bit of skill points accuired it did not pose a challenge to kill people in most situations with the plane. More like genre savvy actuallyI know the score. Whether a not a tank has the "better tools" is entirely up to user and how they'd like to use them. If it's perfectly fine as a comparison, then why is CQC fighting the rulewhen GJ is designing maps,while we clearly can make it a more interesting battle if every nation can face their strengths and shortcomings on the battlefield. 1. Yeah, i totally wonder why you never see people playing them, but I still see the same ol team comps of 90% tiger 2s. (well until last update and the introduction of M41). The majority of the 7.92 German ammunition types go seemingly unused in the game, especially all the high velocity variants of the bullets. Its not like I am proposing to ram the enemy. Removing the Panther II made sense if the game was aiming for historical accuracy. Working at 6.3 turned out to be pleasant, as I found my way into 6.3 and 6.7 matches most of the time. It's best to make do with what you have at the moment plus its amusing flanking with big bulky vehicles. I think it's important to call out that there are a lot of different aspects to mobility. Thus then other nations get the impression that Germany is both OP, but still their players while about wanting better tanks. This can be minimized if you slow down first (knowing there is an enemy out there). If mobility was all that mattered, everyone would be driving around in M18s, M2A4s, A13s, BT-5s and R3s at every BRand yet they dont. It is a medium tank like the Panther II or T-44-100. Penetration isn't everything and it's wrong to assume that a heavy tank should be mostly immune to everything they face of similiar or lower BR. Falcon is especially broken as it handles like a light tank with 110mm of pen a super rapid fire rate. 6. If by any standards the Panther is far more stable due to its suspension, what does that make the Sherman series, especially in a CQC situation where the medium low speeds are to its' advantage? They've been in the game for years so to state that they've dropped off the face of the earth is anything but true. Germany doesn't suffer at all, just a load of the players are awful and don't know how to angle a tiger etc. Because they know that there will be most probably a trap when they arrive at the cap point. While mobility has it's place, it's only one of the triad of armament, armor and mobility. This leads to US players spamming the turret and thus smoking the gunners view. Then you have very bad chances to win as USA, since you won't be able to flank them. The turret is ok, not the best, but gives the 76mm and 85mm some trouble. Sohow exactly do I do that? And no matter what is the br setting whatever times you get a new vehicle even at 8.7 you have to start the whole thing again. I think that is what contributes in combination with what you mentioned for the low WR of Germans at the 5.7-6.7 BR range. Because heat rounds don't care about armor. The ATGMs aren't common place but considering germany doesn't get SS.11s until 7.7 it does show the extreme technology advantage the brits have. Or if the hull is exposed, anywhere of the hull. Germany has so many vehicles that some are clunkers and others are very OP. Fires, backs up to cover from return fire etc, flanks if need be. Russians are a mixed bag but to Kill an IS6 or IS3 is usually a combination of skill and luck as they are mostly immune to the long 88. Born Lucile Randon on 11 February 1904 in Ales, the world's oldest person. Only if you let him, if you did the smart thing you will set the rules of engagement and battleground long before they even considered such a thing. And im asking how your angling it. It allows for the a pilot to manually set several engine-related perks on the aircraft while on the fly, with the most important being the radiator and the fuel mixture. It's obvious which has the better hull where as its obvious who has the better turret. Furthermore, using simple math, after 2 Minutes the number of places where the M18 could be is much bigger than the number of places where the Panther could be. Germany is being denied their AA roof mounted guns because "They would make no difference". But the T34doesn't wreck anymore havok than a Tiger 2 h 10.5 does. This is a subreddit for War Thunder, a cross platform vehicular combat MMO developed by Gaijin Entertainment for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Linux, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5, Xbox One and Xbox Series X|S. Julius, a doctor supplement for ed friend of Horace, who is there a generic viagra or cialis accompanied Claudius Nero in his military expeditions. Tracks cover most of the hull so thats a no-go unless you're literally 10m away. An Panther however loses his main advantage of better armor. And the stock ammo of the german M48A2C is the same as the US/Chinese M48A1, but somehow the US/Chinese M48A1 is at a higher BR. 20112022 Gaijin Games Kft. By There are things the T series better and the game tends to play to those advantages mord than to the tiger 2s but the differences between the two aren't much trust me on that one. Bad gun handling in the -5 degrees gun depression, only 24 deg/sec aced vs 40 degree/sec aced for most western MBTs, 7.1s reload, slower than 120mm which is 6.36 or 6 seconds. At 6.7 the US T series are much more survivable when it comes to being hit. Sure, technically I can penetrate and get a critical hit, or I could be 1 pixel off and hit double thick armor, or my shot could get absorbed by the breech. And in realistic they are mainly on maps with japan fighting on one side. Germany has access to the P-47 the same way the US has access to the 109 and 190. Germany continues to suffer in War Thunder! Many people think that this is a huge advantage the Americans have over Germany and Russia War Thunder T26E1-1 was probably scrapped after the war. Once he has spotted you, you are basically dead. Useful on certain maps. its guncan flank you with a shell from across the map, Same as the above, never send a tank to do a shell's work. I will never understand whats inside Gaijin dev team, but they should add a German Mig 29, instead of waiting until russia gets a better plane first, as always. For anyone who has ever played War Thunder and certainly for those who have perused the forums, the line Germany suffers! is probably something youve heard before. I'll have to talk about CAS soon I suppose. Click here to jump to that post. The rest including pz iv and pz 3 is pretty balanced in my opinion. They can both all go through the Centurion mantlet with ease. Just look at the Tiger 1H how many Heavy Tanks at 5.3 can roll up to 45 almost 50Km/h. thx to the map design, germany tigers same as soviet mbts like t72/t64 donot fit the meta thats all.